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Originally Posted by LegendarySSJ7
I don't contest TOEI's blithe inconsistency. But whether Vegeta was accessing SSj 2 or not in Movie 13 and 12... that ranges in interpretation. He managed to phase Janemba somehow, so I think even despite the lack of lightning dancing around his aura, Janemba was just hamming it up, but say Vegeta was accessing SSj 2 wasn't stretching things by far. As for Movie 13, it has too many plotholes for me to even further the assertion. As for Gohan in Movie 12... his hair is the same across all three forms and no bolts of lightning were over his aura, so even outside of asserting attitude and conversion of power to the fullest... I'd say that making him SSj 2 would make him everyone disproportionately strong (even vaccously so). Then again, Broli's appearances tend to be brief enough that he feels like a cameo appearance (much like the end of the DBZ series itself).
I'd say that's even excessive for Movie 10 Broli, but to each his own. Then again, I feel Broli was only accessing SSj Type 3 and not this erroneous "Legendary Super Saiyan form" TOEI labeled or whatever, but again, to each his own.
I also wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone was MSS in Movie 8. As for Trunks' transformation... SSj Type 3, you mean? Well, both SSj 3 and SSj Type 3 glancingly show the long-term effects of an extension of SS-sized power that's inherently ineffectual (without equalization) in speed and power. But if I've observed anything over the years, it's that no one in DBZ quite developers alongside one to another in sheer strength; there's only one number one victor (thus denoting the fatal flaw of the series: superfluous power growth equals off no room for growth).
And yes, TOEI are of the opinion that Goku is apparently some sort of invincible being of sorts, but I don't think they felt the same about anyone else.... I don't see how Broli could be as strong as the breakthroughs that are the pinnacle of the series (that we only see later on, as a response to other threats, or that are pinnacles of select SSj forms).
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There is a difference in Gohan's hair from the Saiyaman Arc to when he transforms in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai. Either his hair changed a bit, or Toriyama made a mistake. Nothing here can either be proven or disproven I think.
I highly disagree on the notion that Broly was accessing a Grade 3 state. His ultimate state is partially similar to the Grade 3, but it's at the same time vastly different. The way he transformed for one, was totally off-the-wall. His body cracked like a shell, revealing his ultimate state from within, it seemed. Transforming into Grade 3 is much more simplistic in that one merely bulks up. Broly seems to get an entirely new body during his. This is just one of the major differences.
I meant that Trunks was Grade 2 in Movie 8.
And I really don't see how Broly couldn't be as strong as an SSj2, which is not even close to the pinnacle of power in DBZ, at least not in the context or aspect your referring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Vegeta
In movie 13, it wasn't just Goku who's power was far off from where it should be. SSJ3 Gotenks was some how stronger than Mystic Gohan (by quite a bit actually). This leads us to believe that power levels in the movies as a whole are not kept consistent with the manga. Movie 13 is proof that Toei do not assign manga based powerlevels to the characters given their forms. As an example, there's no way SSJ3 Goku could be that strong. Also there's no way USSJ Trunks or MSSJ Gohan are on the same level as Piccolo, BUT that's how Toei made it. And to your other point, no matter how strong Broly is, there is no way for us to not notice the gap between Piccolo and MSSJ Gohan. Therefore we can assume that their powers were close in the movie. Either that or Gohan, Trunks, Goku and Vegeta were normal SSJ's (which I choose to believe). But even if they weren't normal SSJ's in movie 8, their powerlevels show otherwise.
For the rest of your post, my views pretty much align with what LegendarySSJ7 had to say.
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So your basing this off Movie logic alone? If we see that one character seems to be doing fairly well enough to keep up with a stronger one, than in that movie, they're equal, and thus in this case, Mid-RoSaT? I've already told you, that the only reason why Piccolo is of any equal footing with the Zet Senshi is because he too must have been intended as Post-RoSaT for the movie. And the reason why he's shown as a being of similar power status to say maybe one as Goku, is because of Broly's overwhelming superiority. It's the same as stuffing Freeza in with the skirmish between Tien, Yamcha, Zangya, and Bido. He would've been cast aside just as easily.